RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way

RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (Full Version)

All Forums >> [JETWEBB.COM FORUM'S] >> Car & Drive Talk

Message

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 10:08:52 AM)
quote: Many current owners of the J79 may or may not have gotten he parts together to make a fully functional system. If you do not have the TO's and the knowledge of what you need. Jet car racers don't need TOs and factory parts to build a fully functional burner.

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 10:13:04 AM)
quote: Running the car as fast as you can in the quickest time and space is not the answer either. So who's method is best, I do not know. SPEED is important. The MAXIMUM POSSIBLE DISTANCE FOR BRAKING is important (particularly on an airport runway). Running a 13,000 lb car in dry thrust gets you neither.

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 10:54:14 AM)
quote: The whole team read the book Richard Nobel wrote regarding his experience leading up to the ThrustSSC breaking the Mach 1 sound barrier. Do some investigating on that car and get back to me. I do believe that their car was heavy and was under thrust to weight. Having a heavy car does change the program. If thrust to weight ratios are not right the car will not get out of its own way. By the time they set the record I'd already been following the development of that car for a couple of years. Thrust SSC weighed approximately 22,000 lbs and set the record with a pair of Rolls-Royce Spey 202 engines each rated at 20,000 lbs thrust although the team also had a pair of Rolls Royce Spey 205 engines each rated at 25,000 lbs thrust. However, Ron Ayers concluded even with the 205 engines Thrust SSC would not have been an 800 mph car. The reason the car's speeds on its supersonic runs were so consistent was that the car was at terminal velocity because supersonic drag turned out to be much higher than predicted. USAC required the car to go Mach 1.01 for a supersonic record. The 763 mph record turned out to be Mach 1.02. Franklin

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 11:05:39 AM)
quote: The reason we have no story from Franklin is there is none. He has no proof and never will. The loon is living in the past!!! I took the time to look up the stuff he quoted and it is old ancient history. Most of the data he offers is twenty or thirty years old. If he would take the time to learn more before shooting his words out. He might realize that the new technology exceeds his limited capability. I believe that we just ignore him we whole industry of Landspeed would be better off. The new breed of high speed land racing is here and here to stay. If Franklin thinks he should not, it is not one of his better attributes. The last thing to say is this, if he ever stopped to read, I mean really read what other poeple have to say he would understand allot more of what the new technology is all about. "...and it is old ancient history. Most of the data he offers is twenty or thirty years old." The F-104 is almost fifty years old. The J-79 is about a fifty year old design. The Blue Flame rocket car broke the last record set with a J-79 car by 30 mph, reaching its top speed in only 20 seconds after accelerating about 7,000 feet. Although Richard Noble set a new mile record with Thrust 2 in 1983, The Blue Flame kilometer record of 630 mph held from 1970 to 1997 when it was finally broken with Thrust SSC.

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 11:20:58 AM)
quote: The loon is living in the past!!! The Budweiser rocket car clocked 692 mph through Earl Flanders electric eye timing traps and remains the fastest American car ever built. A J-79 with a stock military burner weighs more than the Budweiser rocket car. Franklin

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 11:25:55 AM)
http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20Mar%202002/SOD-031402.htm Franklin

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 11:29:13 AM)
www.draglist.com/stories/SOD-Nov-2002/SOD-112502.htm Franklin

Wiley -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 2:07:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Guest quote: exactly what is your education level and/or experience that makes you feel that you know more than the people that are actually doing it? Although I'm a college graduate, Art Arfons with only a high school education built a jet car that set the World Land Speed Record three times in eight timed runs. Despite the fact Arfons only previous jet car was the J-47 powered Cyclops, Arfons bought a J-79 that had been declared surplus because of damaged blades, removed the blades on the opposite sides of the wheels to balance it out, then proceeded to build the Green Monster that by only its fifth timed run clocked 571 mph. Mr. Ratliff: Thank you for the enlightening me as to the education and achievments of Mr. Arfons, however it is not Mr. Arfons credentials that I am questioning presently. I take it that you must have majored in English, and not an area (physics, engineering, etc.) that would lend any merit to your hypothosis of exactly what would constitute an "integrated way" to approach the design and building of a LSR setting vehicle. That, coupled with your obvious lack of life experience on the subject has left me no choice but to feel that your posts are basically meaningless ramblings, of which I no longer have an interest in. I would, however, invite you to prove me wrong on a nice long lakebed somewhere with a LSR vehicle of your own design. Certainly for a man of your "wisdom," that should not be too difficult of a task. Otherwise, why don't you go back to whatever nuclear forum you came from and leave these gentlemen to their work.

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 2:52:34 PM)
Good Day All I would appear that no matter what you say this guy RATliff that he always wants to be right and have the last word. If you offer up details and proven information. He just twists it around to suit himself. The problem with that it just makes him look like the fool. If the doopy bastard could ever give his own original ideas instead of quoting other peoples work he might get credibility. So far everything that he has shown is from the past sixties thru the eighties. The fact that the F-104 is old and J79 is just as old makes no difference. It would be appear that he missed the boat again. It is not the age of the F-104 NAE project it is the fact that the car is a proven design. It is not J79 and how old it is. Both the car and the engine are still current technology. The words get lost in Franklin's grey matter. One thing that I have noticed is now he resorting to cutting and pasting the words in trying to make his point. That is even a bigger joke. It just porves that he is getting desperate to prove a point. The quotes are taken out of context twisted around and support with nothing but dry air. Seriously is this the best you can do? If it is get off the horse!!!! No matter how hard you beat the dead thing it still will not drink water.

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 2:52:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wiley quote: ORIGINAL: Guest quote: exactly what is your education level and/or experience that makes you feel that you know more than the people that are actually doing it? Although I'm a college graduate, Art Arfons with only a high school education built a jet car that set the World Land Speed Record three times in eight timed runs. Despite the fact Arfons only previous jet car was the J-47 powered Cyclops, Arfons bought a J-79 that had been declared surplus because of damaged blades, removed the blades on the opposite sides of the wheels to balance it out, then proceeded to build the Green Monster that by only its fifth timed run clocked 571 mph. Mr. Ratliff: Thank you for the enlightening me as to the education and achievments of Mr. Arfons, however it is not Mr. Arfons credentials that I am questioning presently. I take it that you must have majored in English, and not an area (physics, engineering, etc.) that would lend any merit to your hypothosis of exactly what would constitute an "integrated way" to approach the design and building of a LSR setting vehicle. That, coupled with your obvious lack of life experience on the subject has left me no choice but to feel that your posts are basically meaningless ramblings, of which I no longer have an interest in. I would, however, invite you to prove me wrong on a nice long lakebed somewhere with a LSR vehicle of your own design. Certainly for a man of your "wisdom," that should not be too difficult of a task. Otherwise, why don't you go back to whatever nuclear forum you came from and leave these gentlemen to their work. It never ceases to amaze me how armchair detectives who've never met me, never talked to me or never even e-mailed me somehow think they know the least little insignificant thing about me. Here's another newflash, numbnuts. "Certainly for a man of your "wisdom," that should not be too difficult of a task." The ONLY people WORLDWIDE in the last THIRTY FOUR YEARS to get a jet or rocket land speed record car finished and onto a dry lakebed are Bill Frederick, Richard Noble, Art Arfons, Rosco McGlashan and Craig Breedlove. Why do you think that is?

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 3:00:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Guest Good Day All I would appear that no matter what you say this guy RATliff that he always wants to be right and have the last word. If you offer up details and proven information. He just twists it around to suit himself. The problem with that it just makes him look like the fool. If the doopy bastard could ever give his own original ideas instead of quoting other peoples work he might get credibility. So far everything that he has shown is from the past sixties thru the eighties. The fact that the F-104 is old and J79 is just as old makes no difference. It would be appear that he missed the boat again. It is not the age of the F-104 NAE project it is the fact that the car is a proven design. It is not J79 and how old it is. Both the car and the engine are still current technology. The words get lost in Franklin's grey matter. One thing that I have noticed is now he resorting to cutting and pasting the words in trying to make his point. That is even a bigger joke. It just porves that he is getting desperate to prove a point. The quotes are taken out of context twisted around and support with nothing but dry air. Seriously is this the best you can do? If it is get off the horse!!!! No matter how hard you beat the dead thing it still will not drink water. Get back to me, Sherlock, when you've shown even minimal knowledge such as how to plug a drag coefficient into the appropriate equation to generate a drag curve, or how to use drag and thrust to calculate acceleration. Or even your ass from a hole in the ground. Franklin

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 3:09:58 PM)
quote: that would lend any merit to your hypothosis of exactly what would constitute an "integrated way" to approach the design and building of a LSR setting vehicle. THAT, Wiley, was the FIRST thing said in this thread. Not my problem you have no basic grasp of the effect on directional stability by the relationship of the center of gravity to the center of pressure. "So far on the North American Eagle I’ve seen some very expert machining and welding go into fabricating the wheels and axles and a lot of time and effort go into restoring the fuselage, but instead of seeing all this effort produce an integrated design that takes into account how everything relates to each other I’ve watched it all being done piecemeal. Building a strong rear axle assembly capable of supporting the car means they’ve moved the center of gravity backward by adding all that weight at the rear. Using a military afterburner means not only is the engine 500 hundred pounds heavier than a J-79 with a drag racing style burner but since that 500 pounds is all the way at the rear they’ve moved the center of gravity even farther backward. If they were to locate their main load bearing suspension mid-body (where the main gear wheel wells are) not only could their hydraulic active suspension lift the car without altering pitch since it would be acting under the center of gravity instead of behind it, but they'd be able to move the center of gravity forward because instead of just moving weight forward they'd be able to take weight off the back because the rear axle would just have to be strong enough to control the pitch not support the weight of the car."

Wiley -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 3:41:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Guest quote: that would lend any merit to your hypothosis of exactly what would constitute an "integrated way" to approach the design and building of a LSR setting vehicle. THAT, Wiley, was the FIRST thing said in this thread. Not my problem you have no basic grasp of the effect on directional stability by the relationship of the center of gravity to the center of pressure. Why should I? I am not involved in the project, nor am I the one criticizing those that are. Get a life...

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 4:38:29 PM)
Why take the time to tell Franklin RATliff anything. He just does not understand. I do know one thing the constant barrage of negative stuff is getting to him. The tone in his words is now resorted to arm chair detectives, numbnuts and Sherlocks. Wow it is amazing that Franklin can even think for himself. I fact is he still offers nothing constructive!!!!!! The only one I have to impress is me. My ego is enough for one. It just so happens that the NAE team is impressed too! What I do not understand, I read about. Then I ask questions and get to see it from several differnet points. RATliff just shoots from the hip with blanks. BANG BANG

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:14:44 PM)
Now that all the fluff and camera stuff is done. NAE enters into the next phase of the project. We will be installing the mid-span suspension and intigrating it into the front suspension then coupling it to the computer system. The car will be ready for some low speed passes. We will keep the cars speed to around 250mph while we check out suspension lift, drag chute designs, P.M. brakes and the engine sytems. The reason for keeping the speed down, will be running the car on rubber tires for this testing. When we have checked the basic systems out we will spend the winter months installing the high speed systems. We are looking at mid May to go out on the desert floor of Black Rock to start making mid range speeds on the solid wheels. Then when we have proven the sub-systems are ready we will build speeds up towards the 800mph mark. We do expect all kinds of things to happen. We will meet each challenge and move forward just like every race team. Here is looking forward to making some noise, smoke and fire. WB

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:48:03 PM)
Isn't this the "JET DRAG RACING" webbsite?

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/15/2004 12:01:27 AM)
Point?

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/15/2004 9:17:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: J79Tech Now that all the fluff and camera stuff is done. NAE enters into the next phase of the project. We will be installing the mid-span suspension and intigrating it into the front suspension then coupling it to the computer system. The car will be ready for some low speed passes. We will keep the cars speed to around 250mph while we check out suspension lift, drag chute designs, P.M. brakes and the engine sytems. The reason for keeping the speed down, will be running the car on rubber tires for this testing. When we have checked the basic systems out we will spend the winter months installing the high speed systems. We are looking at mid May to go out on the desert floor of Black Rock to start making mid range speeds on the solid wheels. Then when we have proven the sub-systems are ready we will build speeds up towards the 800mph mark. We do expect all kinds of things to happen. We will meet each challenge and move forward just like every race team. Here is looking forward to making some noise, smoke and fire. WB Last night I read my copy of the engineering paper written by Ackroyd (the engineer who designed Richard Noble's Thrust 2 car). Like my suggestion to you, they ran Thrust 2 by keeping the power setting THE SAME from run to run and simply backing the car progressively further away from the measured mile on each run up. They also didn't use a hand throttle so Noble could keep his hands on the steering butterfly at all times (buttons on the butterfly fired the chutes). Art Arfons didn't use a hand throttle on his record setting J-79 Green Monster either.

Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/15/2004 9:35:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Guest Why take the time to tell Franklin RATliff anything. He just does not understand. I do know one thing the constant barrage of negative stuff is getting to him. The tone in his words is now resorted to arm chair detectives, numbnuts and Sherlocks. Wow it is amazing that Franklin can even think for himself. I fact is he still offers nothing constructive!!!!!! The only one I have to impress is me. My ego is enough for one. It just so happens that the NAE team is impressed too! What I do not understand, I read about. Then I ask questions and get to see it from several differnet points. RATliff just shoots from the hip with blanks. BANG BANG I told them how to cut 500 lbs off the weight of the car and simultaneously move the center of gravity farther forward. What have YOU offered? Franklin

Wiley -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/15/2004 11:36:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Guest The ONLY people WORLDWIDE in the last THIRTY FOUR YEARS to get a jet or rocket land speed record car finished and onto a dry lakebed are Bill Frederick, Richard Noble, Art Arfons, Rosco McGlashan and Craig Breedlove. Why do you think that is? Somehow, your name does not seem to be included on this short but distinguished list... Why do you think THAT is?

Page: << < 4 5 [6] 7 8 > >>

0.1601563