RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (Full Version)

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Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/13/2004 4:10:25 PM)

quote:

Then if we still can not make enough thrust, then we will pull out the JATO or ROCKET motors and make what we need.


You can't simply hang JATO motors on a supersonic car and expect it to work. They have to be an integral part of the car's design in terms of aerodynamics, weight distribution (center of gravity) and thrust vector.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/13/2004 5:08:37 PM)

Franklin you are loser!!!!!!
This will be the last time I respone to you. You do not even have the guts to log on. Nor do even have the guts to show your face!
Since you will not offer anyhting new nor proof of what you realy know or proof of having worked on anything but a desk. Go crawl back under that rock you climbed out from under.
You really are one stupid MF.



Wiley -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/13/2004 8:45:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: J79Tech

Franklin you are loser!!!!!!
This will be the last time I respone to you. You do not even have the guts to log on. Nor do even have the guts to show your face!
Since you will not offer anyhting new nor proof of what you realy know or proof of having worked on anything but a desk. Go crawl back under that rock you climbed out from under.
You really are one stupid MF.



Mr.Ratliff:
I will apologize up front if I am wrong, but in all fairness I have followed your meanderings not only through this thread, but throughout JetWebb past and present. You have been asked repeatedly what actual "hands on" experience you have, not only in LSR vehicles, but with jets vehicles of ANY TYPE. A quick search of your name on the 'net brings up a SHORT but unproven mention of a thrust driven prop vehicle, and a handful of unhappy forums that seem to be less than impressed with your participation. In all honesty, you look like a person that is sitting in an institution for the mentally unstable (or living in Mommy's basement) that somehow got access to the internet. You seem to have a certain amount of intelligence basically through your ability to research and your delivery via a well developed mastery of the English language. That is where it seems to stop. Let me make it blunt... exactly what is your education level and/or experience that makes you feel that you know more than the people that are actually doing it?
Please... just simply answer that. If you do (and not until then) you will get the respect (at least from me) that I feel that you think you so richly deserve.

Anybody with me?



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/13/2004 9:17:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wiley

quote:

ORIGINAL: J79Tech

Franklin you are loser!!!!!!
This will be the last time I respone to you. You do not even have the guts to log on. Nor do even have the guts to show your face!
Since you will not offer anyhting new nor proof of what you realy know or proof of having worked on anything but a desk. Go crawl back under that rock you climbed out from under.
You really are one stupid MF.



Mr.Ratliff:
I will apologize up front if I am wrong, but in all fairness I have followed your meanderings not only through this thread, but throughout JetWebb past and present. You have been asked repeatedly what actual "hands on" experience you have, not only in LSR vehicles, but with jets vehicles of ANY TYPE. A quick search of your name on the 'net brings up a SHORT but unproven mention of a thrust driven prop vehicle, and a handful of unhappy forums that seem to be less than impressed with your participation. In all honesty, you look like a person that is sitting in an institution for the mentally unstable (or living in Mommy's basement) that somehow got access to the internet. You seem to have a certain amount of intelligence basically through your ability to research and your delivery via a well developed mastery of the English language. That is where it seems to stop. Let me make it blunt... exactly what is your education level and/or experience that makes you feel that you know more than the people that are actually doing it?
Please... just simply answer that. If you do (and not until then) you will get the respect (at least from me) that I feel that you think you so richly deserve.

Anybody with me?

Wiley I expressed myself earlier, however I do have more to say. Since it is obvious to me that you understand the problem let me say this.
The reason we have no story from Franklin is there is none. He has no proof and never will. The loon is living in the past!!! I took the time to look up the stuff he quoted and it is old ancient history. Most of the data he offers is twenty or thirty years old. If he would take the time to learn more before shooting his words out. He might realize that the new technology exceeds his limited capability. I believe that we just ignore him we whole industry of Landspeed would be better off. The new breed of high speed land racing is here and here to stay. If Franklin thinks he should not, it is not one of his better attributes. The last thing to say is this, if he ever stopped to read, I mean really read what other poeple have to say he would understand allot more of what the new technology is all about. This is forum or my words are in no way taking away from past achievements. The ground work laid down by these teams is be commended and applauded. The achievements do not go un-noticed, we at NAE do give credit were it is do. This Franklin bozo just does not deserve apologies or any respect.
Yes Wiley I am with you!!!!
WB



Bill_picardjr -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/13/2004 9:19:48 PM)

Though we all are with you, he probably won't see your post. I and others have been calling him out for a while but the posts seem to rub the administrator the wrong way and get erased. Tread softly, or your precious right to post on this forum, will be revoked........The forum is definitely more active now that there is some good s-h-i-t talking going on! Maybe we will find out who Mr. Propster really is.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/13/2004 9:40:25 PM)

If franklin knows as much as he thinks he knows than I am sure we can find him in the record books!! The guy has an answer for everything, its like he sees a topic looks it up on yahoo and writes a book report for all of us to read. Personally I like him, it gives all of us someone to pick on. A wise man once told me..."Every ship has an anchor." Why isn't he registered if he knows all, and everyone? I don't think there is a Franklin I think he is a government mole here to see what we are doing with the nations past technologies! Be careful what you say he is watching!



Wiley -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/13/2004 9:51:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill_picardjr

Though we all are with you, he probably won't see your post. I and others have been calling him out for a while but the posts seem to rub the administrator the wrong way and get erased. Tread softly, or your precious right to post on this forum, will be revoked........The forum is definitely more active now that there is some good s-h-i-t talking going on! Maybe we will find out who Mr. Propster really is.


Well, if that's the way the administrator of this forum feels about my post, so be it. I honestly don't think I've said anything that dis-respects him, JetWebb, or the community as a whole. If I have, I'm truly sorry. I will go quietly, however that will not change the way I feel.

I posted it, and (unlike some) I backed it up by signing my name to it. I'm a big boy. I'll deal with the consequences.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/13/2004 11:17:13 PM)

I am very happy to see many members and guests standing up and saying something. Franklin needs to get his feather ruffled, he has been allowed to get away with dissing people and teams. If we can keep the language clean it should not matter what we talk about. If I have offened anyone, except for Franklin then my apologies. I do not mind discussing topics that interest me. I even enjoy arguing about subjects that are worthy. Franklin is one person that agrues for the sake of arguing. He probably gloats when we get pissed off. I am all for shoveling crap back at him. Granted I am reduced to playing on his terms. But it is fun to see just how far one can push the evelope of the stupid poeple in this world. Now I realise that picking on one person may seem harsh, maybe even crude for an educated person like myself. I just have a problem with individuals picking on me and what I do. If Franklin had not dissed me and my engine, he would not have pissed me off so bad. Do you think that he would be a man and apologize for being inconciderate. No, that is just not his style. So with that said let's keep this string going by discussing the real stuff not this invented crap. Anyone look at the www.landspeed.com site and catch the update for this past weekend. NAE installed the engine and we had Discovery Channel out to film the whole thing, they filmed the new permenant magnet brake system, the new high speed chutes and even went up to Eagle machine to see the new high speed wheels being spun up. When Discovery airs this show everyone will see just what we have done. We will be starting our testing later next month at Grant County Airport, Moses Lake Washington so keep an eye on the website for updates.
Bill Eckberg alias WB
J79Tech



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/13/2004 11:41:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guest

quote:

Then if we still can not make enough thrust, then we will pull out the JATO or ROCKET motors and make what we need.


You can't simply hang JATO motors on a supersonic car and expect it to work. They have to be an integral part of the car's design in terms of aerodynamics, weight distribution (center of gravity) and thrust vector.

Who is this guest that would be stupid enough to think we would just hang Jato on our Supersonic aircraft. It was meant to be a general statement, and part joke. Besides we have the original design courtesy of NASA and the F-104 project. for the JATO and Rocket systems testing they did. Yes we will use the same systems if needs be.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 8:35:50 AM)

I just took a look at the web site. Pretty impressive. I don't kow anything about LSR's but that body has to be pretty slippery. To me (not knowing any better) the rear wheel track looks a little narrow, but I'm sure people who know more than I do figured it must be OK.
Don't let Franklin rain on your parade, his "propster" looks like a bunch of grade school kids put it together. He has some photos of it somewhere on this site, unless he removed them. He was on a rant for a while that his car could outrun a top fueler. He also got into a whizzing contest about horsepower and torque of turbine engines with someone who knows what he's talking about.
You will learn to just ignore him like the rest of us do. You (unfortunatly) have not been on the site long enough to realize he's just here to ruffle our feathers.
Keep up the good work and best of luck.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:24:28 AM)

quote:

exactly what is your education level and/or experience that makes you feel that you know more than the people that are actually doing it?


Although I'm a college graduate, Art Arfons with only a high school education built a jet car that set the World Land Speed Record three times in eight timed runs. Despite the fact Arfons only previous jet car was the J-47 powered Cyclops, Arfons bought a J-79 that had been declared surplus because of damaged blades, removed the blades on the opposite sides of the wheels to balance it out, then proceeded to build the Green Monster that by only its fifth timed run clocked 571 mph.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:28:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guest

I just took a look at the web site. Pretty impressive. I don't kow anything about LSR's but that body has to be pretty slippery. To me (not knowing any better) the rear wheel track looks a little narrow, but I'm sure people who know more than I do figured it must be OK.
Don't let Franklin rain on your parade, his "propster" looks like a bunch of grade school kids put it together. He has some photos of it somewhere on this site, unless he removed them. He was on a rant for a while that his car could outrun a top fueler. He also got into a whizzing contest about horsepower and torque of turbine engines with someone who knows what he's talking about.
You will learn to just ignore him like the rest of us do. You (unfortunatly) have not been on the site long enough to realize he's just here to ruffle our feathers.
Keep up the good work and best of luck.


No, DIMWIT, I said that a propeller develops MORE POUNDS OF THRUST PER HORSEPOWER than a Top Fuel dragster. In fact, a propeller can develop as much as 4 or 5 pounds of thrust per horsepower. This means that a 3,000 horsepower engine driving an APPROPRIATELY designed propeller can develop the same forward thrust as a Top Fuel dragster does with 7,000 or 8,000 horsepower.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:31:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill_picardjr

Though we all are with you, he probably won't see your post. I and others have been calling him out for a while but the posts seem to rub the administrator the wrong way and get erased. Tread softly, or your precious right to post on this forum, will be revoked........The forum is definitely more active now that there is some good s-h-i-t talking going on! Maybe we will find out who Mr. Propster really is.


Maybe that's because the administrator is A JET CAR RACER and sees when somebody knows what they're talking about or DOESN'T KNOW THEIR BUTT FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND.

Franklin



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:35:24 AM)

quote:

Test the new technology in Permanent Magnetic Brakes and Low Speed Drag/Parachutes, (keep in mind these chutes are a different design from standard dragster type)


I'm very familiar with ribbon chutes using deployment bags. These were used in The Blue Flame and Thrust 2 cars, and are currently being used in the Burkland's 450 mph "Montana Eagle" streamliner.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:42:08 AM)

quote:

Once again the team has experience about testing, Steve Wallace and myself have been involved with Boeing and Flight testing for many years. Granted this is not the same thing, however the approach is the same. Start out with low speed. Test the new technology in Permanent Magnetic Brakes and Low Speed Drag/Parachutes, (keep in mind these chutes are a different design from standard dragster type). Test the canard and wheel suspension systems. Integrate the computer system with strain gauge, temp sensor, vibration sensor, fuel monitoring, throttle angle, weight on wheels, angle of attack, wheel speed sensors and about fifty other systems we will be testing.


Remember you're going after the World Land Speed Record, NOT doing flight testing of prototypes for PRODUCTION AIRCRAFT.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:46:34 AM)

quote:

The whole team is looking on the internet and in achieves for the data. It just does not exist!


Maybe instead of looking on the internet you should be calling or e-mailing the people who over the years have accumulated a variety of engineering papers and articles on land speed record vehicles.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:50:03 AM)

quote:

My extensive knowledge coupled together with Robin' extensive knowledge will get us there. Then if we still can not make enough thrust, then we will pull out the JATO or ROCKET motors and make what we need. Incase you did not know this part, the -7 engine at idle consumes 4.5gals/min at 100%mil about 40gal/min and at max A/B 140gal/min. our fuel tank holds around 400 gals, my figures show that we will use every drop on each run.


You're never going to be accelerating the car for more than a minute, so going by YOUR figures the MOST the car will be consuming is 140 gallons NOT 400 gallons.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:54:31 AM)

quote:

All your facts and figures are history, ancient history. NAE is intending to go were no other team has gone.


The F-104 was developed in the late fifties.

J-79 cars such as Art Arfons' Green Monster and Craig Breedlove's Spirit of America - Sonic 1 were built in the mid sixties.

The Blue Flame was built in 1969/70 and set the record in 1970.

So which one is "ancient history"?

The fact is the vehicles you're calling "ancient history" are your ONLY REAL WORLD data base.



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 9:57:17 AM)

quote:

So by using the variable thrust system from the original configuration we cut that fuel burn down during testing. Did you think about that part? If you did great if not well, the point is I did.


Did you think about how that's going to add a COUPLE of miles to your acceleration run? I DID.

Franklin



Guest -> RE: F-104 car team not doing things in integrated way (9/14/2004 10:06:22 AM)

quote:

When the car was not ready, the teams you have mentioned earlier. Why is it that they had to go back to the drawing board? How come their names are not in the record books right now? I can not answer that part.


Very few jet/rocket teams have gone after the record in the first place with only a few out of that few having to go "back to the drawing board."

The first jet land speed car, Doc Ostich's "Flying Caduceus" built under the supervision of Ray Brock, was unsuccessful in breaking the record.

Glen Leasher got killed in 1962 when the "Infinity" crashed.

Craig Breedlove's team could not get the original "Spirit of America" to work in 1962 and had to wait until 1963.

Walt Arfons "Wingfoot Express II" rocket car was unsuccessful in breaking the record.

Franklin



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